Neil

I feel that I can state quite confidently that there was no datestamp BRITISH FLEET MAIL 121 - as Peter has said below, it is in my view BRITISH FLEET MAIL 2.

BRITISH FLEET MAIL datestamps were only numbered 1 to 40 - these are illustrated in Proud (The Postal History of the Naval and R.A.F. Postal Services) (published 1992).

I also attach copies of proof strikes extracted from a register initialled and dated in manuscript 15/1/45 - although all proof strikes were dated 15 SP 44 (one copy of each).

Mike  :)

I have received the following enquiry from an individual who has previously asked for our help, as a result of which I was able to write up an article for our Journal and hr also donated a couple of covers  for our funds.  This time he asks about a cover he has purchased:

[color=maroon]I bought it on the basis of the dealer's description, which was 'Delandre British Occupation label on reverse of Near East cover' but having now got it, whilst the cancel might be a SZ one, I think it more likely to be a European APO, perhaps S34 ?  Can you tell from the 'PASSED BY' handstamp and the Censor's 'signature' which APO it is, please?[/color]

My initial response was as follows:

[color=blue]I am not a WW1 expert and so I will place your query on our members forum - there are plenty of WW1 experts there.  However, I did look through my copy of "The Postal History of the British Army in World War I 1903-1929", by Alistair Kennedy and George Crabb, (Published FPHS, 1977).  I am aware that Proud's WW1 book (2nd Edition) is more up-to-date, hence placing the query on our forum.

In looking through K&C I find that the rectangular censor (FPHS Type CM6) was only used in France, Belgium & Germany (and Italy 1917-18 only).

Also the double ring steel datestamp with thick bars either side of the number (FPHS Type D1) was only issued for ARMY POST OFFICE SZ numbers 1, 2 & 3.

I am therefore of the same opinion as you in that it is not an SZ number and more than likely is an APO datestamp used in Europe[/color]

So over to you - can anyone add any further information please - particularly about the censor?

Thanks, Mike

Neil

The short answer is 'yes' they are one in the same service - this has changed its name over the years.  Whilst I have some notes on the courier service (see below) there is still a great deal of research to be undertaken to get a fuller picture.  Thank you for your two illustrations, whilst I have seen rubber datestamps before, I have not as yet seen any proofs in PO Impressions Books.

In 1953 within British Army of the Rhine (BAOR), initially as an experimental measure, responsibility for the transmission of classified official mail was transferred to the Army Postal Service from the Royal Corps of Signals (Signals Despatch Service) (SDS) and Royal Air Force (Special Despatch Service).  The title chosen for the new service was the Security Courier Service (SCS) Northern Army Group (NAG). 

It was then extended to the Middle East as Security Courier Service (SCS) Middle East Forces (MEF).  This requires further research to establish a date.  Your illustrations are of rubber datestamps.  The Post Office Impressions Books have steel datestamps inscribed SECURITY COURIER SERVICE / MIDDLE EAST FORCES proofed and issued on 26 June 1958 and numbered in the range 218 / 230 to 299 (with many gaps).  There were two copies of each number.

There is then a very, very small number of steel datestamps inscribed SECURITY COURIER SERVICE proofed and issued between 16 March 1960 and 27 May 1960 (numbered in the range 573 to 1044).  Mainly only one copy of each number.

Oval steel datestamps inscribed ARMED FORCES COURIER SERVICE were proofed and issued on 9 May 1961 (numbered 2100 to 2149) and 31 July 1961 (2150 to 2174) for BAOR.  A further series were proofed and issued on 14 June 1961 (2200 to 2249) for NEARELF and another series proofed and issued on 31 July 1961 (2300 to 2349) with yet another series proofed and issued on 31 July 1961 (2900 to 2924).  In all these cases there were two datestamps of each number.

A series of circular steel datestamps inscribed FORCES COURIER SERVICE were proofed and issued on 8 May 1969 (2350 to 2399).  Again two copies of each number.

Defence Council Instruction (General) 29/66 dated 25 April 1966 set out the general organisation of, and the terms and conditions for using, the Forces Courier Communications Service (FCCS).  It was stated that the FCCS, hitherto known as the Armed Forces Courier Service (AFCS) was part of the Postal & Courier Communications Service (PCCS).  The FCCS was responsible for the rapid and secure carriage of official classified air mail overseas on behalf of the three Services and certain other Government Departments.  Air mail of items with a security classification below Confidential was conveyed by the Forces Postal Service.

The FCCS operated from Forces Courier Offices (FCOs) which were co-located with Forces Post Offices (FPOs).  Items for transmission by the FCCS were handed in to a FCO either as individual items or in bulk. 

I hope you find this useful.

Mike  :)

Chris

Re: L Infantry Base Depot - please see attached link.  The lettering of IBDs diod not follow the course you have indicated (i.e. L = 12th letter, thus 12 IBD)

The listing shows first the numbered IBDs, then for those that were redesignated with letters the lettered IBDs:
[url=https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/infantry-base-depots-in-france-1914-1918/]https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/infantry-base-depots-in-france-1914-1918/[/url]

Mike  :)

Frank

Many thanks for the information - I have advised the person making the request accordingly.
We do not appear to have any article on the subject in our Journals.

Mike  :)

Peter

Many thanks for your response.  I have advised the person making the enquiry to contact Graham Mark, but I note on the CSSG website:

Australia, New Zealand & Pacific (2008) out of stock

Mike  :)

I have received the following enquiry - I presume it relates to WW2:

[color=maroon]I am in the process of researching the military postal history of Fiji. I am looking specifically for information about the censor markings that were used in Fiji by Fijians not the U.S. APOs or NZ forces. I would appreciate any help you could give me[/color]

Is anyone able to help please?

Thanks, Mike

Chris

This would be a massive project - it is not as simple as every unit having its own "cachet" (or unit datestamp) but the various part of a unit (e.g. HQ, Orderly Room, SQMS, etc).  Another example is for each artillery regiment, every battery would have one or more unit cachets/datestamps and the same for an infantry battalion, each company could well have its own.  When it comes to headquarters, then potentially each branch of the HQ would have its own cachet/datestamp.  Good luck - I hope you have plenty of time!

Regards, Mike  :)

I have received the following enquiry:

[color=maroon]I am a collector of Palestine postal history and military mail too.
I am looking for N.Z. forces in Palestine during WWII:
where units were stationed, N.Z. postmarks, literture, etc.
appreciate your assistance.[/color]

Can anyone offer any assistance / advice please?

Thanks, Mike

Chris

Please see my notes on the attached Word document.

A long-winded process, but I hope they are of help unless someone comes up with something simpler!

Mike  :)

Hello Ingo

FPO 329 was issued to the Guards Armoured Division Postal Unit (issue date unknown, but by 2 August 1943) - it was one of five datestamps issued (FPOs 328 to 332).  It appears that five datestamps was the standard issue to a divisional postal unit.

However, there are no detailed records as to which FPO within the Division it was allocated to.

It is also clear that someone (name unknown) who obviously had access to some official records at the end of WW2 clearly made an error when recording information for these FPOs allocations - they wrote D.A.9 when it should have been D.A.G.

The War Diary for the Divisional Postal Unit does not provide any details for individual FPOs operated by the unit.  However, it does show:

Unit HQ moved to Geleen, The Netherlands on 5 December 1944
Unit HQ moved to Rillaer (this could be an error for Rillaar, Belgium) on 20 December 1944
Unit HQ moved to Leau (no other information)

The next location is 5 February 1945 with the unit at Sparendaal, Netherlands - this could be an error for Sparrendaal.

I cannot remember if the War Diary was handwritten or typewritten - it was many years ago when I looked at it and took notes.  This could be an error in me reading handwriting or a typo error by whoever typed up the War Diary.

The War Diary does not indicate how many FPOs were operational at any one time.  However, with the entry into Germany the following FPOs were redesignated on 26 June 1945 as shown below (there is no reference to FPO datestamp numbers in the War Diary):

FPO DAG became APO E.591
FPO BG32 became APO E.592
FPO BAG5 became APO E.593

Sorry I cannot be more specific regarding the location of FPO 329.

Mike  :)

I have received the following enquiry - is anyone able to suggest any additional publications which he should consult?
I am going to try and put together a response on how mail was handled in BLA at that time.

[color=maroon]I am working on an exhibition detailing the help given by a local Oxfordshire Yeomanry soldier to a survivor, Naomi Kaplan, at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp shortly after liberation in 1945. The soldier, Arthur Tyler, wrote letters to Naomi's family in the USA, to tell them she was alive. I have some of the letters back to Arthur - in the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum archive, and one envelope.

I hope you might be interested in the project, as the postal service is at its core, but I also wanted to ask you whether you might be able to recommend some reading for me on how the letters would have been sent by Arthur Tyler to Houston, and how he would have received replies, given that his unit moved about several times in April/May 1945.

I was thinking of trying Holmes Brig KS: Operation Overlord, Proud EB: History of British Army Postal Service Vol III, and Vallance Col. ET: Postmen at War, but if you had any other suggestions that would be great.

I'd of course be very happy to tell you more about the project and the material that we have in the archive.

Very best wishes, Dr Myfanwy Lloyd
Associate Member, Oxford University History Faculty,
Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum www.sofo.org.uk[/color]

Thanks, Mike

Hi all

Cannot really add anything to this except that if it is MTO I would have though a more generic Motor Transportation Officer  / Motor Transport Officer / Mechanical Transport Officer ?

Mike

I have emailed Bob (our webmaster) to see if he can establish what has happened.

I also note that when typing this response or indeed a new query (see my US Afghanistan postcard) a blue border surriunds the text box - only whilst typing, once posted it is gone.

Mike

Hi all

I really only posting this as a test, to see how it sits following the comments from Frank and Chris on their postings.
However, do enjoy a bit of modern military postal history!

Mike