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Messages - Michael Dobbs

#916
Members Discussion Forum / Re: Experimental P.O. K-77
October 11, 2012, 09:28:30 PM
Graham

Many thanks for your comments - I have also come to the conclusion that what I have found indicates it not being a military PO.

In addition Martin Lynes sent me an extract from Donaldson's Supplement published in 1994 (scan attached) and I have since found a reference to the full title of that Supplement and also a reference to the original work:
"The postal agencies in eastern Arabia and the Gulf (supplement)"  by Neil Donaldson. - St. Peter Port (Guernsey): Bridger & Kay, 1994. - 38p.: 30 ill.; 22x15cm. - ISBN 0-902784-09-9

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arabgulfandyemenstampgroup/message/1912
"Thought people would like to know that I have, with kind permission from Neil Donaldson and HH Sales ltd., reproduced "The Postal Agencies  in Eastern Arabia and the Gulf". It is NOT a new edition, it does not have new information. It is, in essence, a reprint of the 1975 text. (It does not have the outdated 'dates card' which is in the back of the 1975 edition.) As it is fundamentally a reprint of the 1975 edition it has the faults of that book, notably some of the images are less than perfect, but the text is fine as are the postmark images.  The new text is a little larger than the old, so the font is somewhat larger and so easier to read so some may view that as a bonus. It is a hardback."

Donaldson's Supplement also mentions another book by Brigadier Virk: "Postal Censorship in India 1939-1945"  but I have no knowledge of this and it does not appear to be held in the FPHS Library.
#917
Members Discussion Forum / Experimental P.O. K-77
October 05, 2012, 10:03:31 AM
I was contacted last week by someone who wanted to know if we had any information on Indian Experimental PO K-77 at the end of WW2.  He mentioned that it has been stated to be at Sharjah.  He also obviously thinks the cover has military connections.  He also mention that there was no mention of it in Proud Volume 3 (History of the Indian Army Postal Service, Vol III, 1931-1947).

I immediately mentioned Brigadier Virk's book: Indian Army Post Offices – Locations and Movements 1939-1947, ed AJ Brown and B Garrard, 1973.  If it was a military operated PO then it would be listed in there (so I thought !). However, the only reference is in Section 2 "Improvised Field Post Offices" which referred to post offices prefixed L (Lahore), MS (Madras), R (Reserve) and S (Stationary).  At pages 110/11 he mentioned Experimental POs "Figures 123 and 124 show datestamps worded "Experimental P.O." or "Experimental S.O.", again provided by the civil post office."  But no mention of the K series.

I asked member Cliff Gregory when I bumped into him at STAMPEX.  He did not know off the top of his head - other than to say K was for Karachi.  However, he has since sent me a scan from the Indian Study Circle journal "India Post" of 1978 (don't have issue details, only that it is p.83 and query 16/78) where an American was asking for the location of EXPERIMENTAL P.O. K-77 in 1937.  Cliff mentioned that this has never been answered.

A web-search brings the following information:

From the website: http://www.oocities.org/uaestamps/dubai/indian/index.html under the heading "Dubai - Indian Postal Administration":
As a result of the upgrading of Dubai Post Office the "EXPERIMENTAL P.O. / K-77" (Type 3) and "EXPERIMENTAL P.O. / K-46" (Type 4) were introduced. Both cancels Experimental P.O. K-77 and K-46 were based in Karachi. The letter "K" in both Types stand for "Karachi" which was responsible for all the Agency Post Offices in the Gulf.

From the Arabic website: http://eltibas.wordpress.com/2012/03/25/2888/ there is a list of references under a photo of Neil Donaldson, one of which is:
A N Donaldson, 'Persian Gulf: Experimental PO K46 and K77', Stamp Collecting, volume 118, pp.

Presumably one of our members who is a member of the 'Royal' on their next visit can look up the said reference and send me a copy ?

A further example (and possibly the reason for the enquiry ?) is from the PhilaSearch website:
http://www.philasearch.com/en/dosearch.php3?breadcrumbId=&postype=all&pictureview=&treeparent=1030430%2C3000078%2C9000050&expandtree=
which appears to have been sold by Gärtner Christoph Auktionshaus for Euro 8,500.00 (as an after auction sale) with the following description:

1940-43 mostly: Collection of 24 Censored Airmail covers (two partial) to Karachi sent from DUBAI, plus two similar from BAHRAIN, plus KUWAIT Olympics on FDC (29 July 1948), plus BAHRAIN 1951 (3 May) FDC of SG 71-75. A fantastic accumulation of scarce covers including various despatch datestamps as Experimental P.O. ''K-46'' and ''K-77'' (has to be investigated), a lot of different and scarce censor marks and strips, cover from Dubai via Bahrain, a rare cover sent by EXPRESS DELIVERY during WWII, or a cover insufficiently paid with 'Karachi Due' handstamp. (M)

Do any of you have any other suggestions / knowledge on the subject ?

Many thanks, Mike  :)
#918
To Khalid and others - my apologies for the long delay in responding.  I said back in January that I would visit the National Archives at Kew and I duly did, but I have been overwhelmed with Society work, collecting and further research (mainly at the Post Office Archives) on all matters affecting post-WW2 British Forces postal services (well that my excuse !).

I looked at the RAF Station Operational Record Book (RAF Form 540) for Sharjah (TNA reference AIR28/1417: January 1956 - December 1960) and whilst it did not answer the question everyone wants answering (i.e. when did the FPO open at RAF Sharjah) it did provide some useful information which I share below.

The strength of the Station as at 29 February 1956 was:

  OF   SNCOs   Cpls and below
RAF   3   17   61
TOL   18   89   4
KRRC   5   6   84

KRRC = The King's Royal Rifle Corps
TOL = Trucial Oman Levies; redesignated Trucial Oman Scouts with effect from 19 March 1956

The KRRC had all gone by the end of April 1956.  Two company's of The Gloucestershire Regiment (a total of 205 all ranks) arrived at the Station from Aden for an indefinite period with effect from 29 August 1956.  24th Independent Infantry Brigade HQ (consisting of 11 OF, 21 SNCOs and 170 Cpls and below) arrived by air on 20 November 1956.

On Saturday 20 April 1957 'B' Company, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) arrived by ship at Dubai and were transported by road to RAF Sharjah where they were stationed.  Their arrival had to be delayed by 10 days owing to the flooding at the Station earlier in the month.

In a letter dated 20 June 1959 the Station OC wrote to the effect that there were no RAF Forms 540 completed for the unit during the period September 1957 to July 1958 and that there was nothing to indicate the reason for this.

I now turn to the Quarterly Historical Reports for HQ 24th Independent Infantry Brigade contained in TNA document WO305/28.  The earliest report covers the period January 1957 to December 1958.  This shows dispositions as at 1 January 1957 as follows:

Brigade HQ - Sharjah
Tactical HQ - Bahrain
1st Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry - Aden
(The other two battalions were back in the UK at their permanent locations around Barnard Castle, County Durham)

Brigade HQ left Sharjah on 16 January 1957 and returned to its UK base at Deerbolt Camp, Barnard Castle in County Durham.

The cover you have illustrated (FPO 551 of NO 56) ties in well with known facts - the sender gives his address as being with a "sub unit" of HQ 24th Independent Infantry Brigade located in Sharjah and gives the correct address for Sharjah (BFPO 64).  I cannot make out the actual day from the scan, but hopefully it is after 20 November 1956 !

Is it coincidence that a new FPO recording for Sharjah (FPO 551) is recorded with the arrival of 24th Brigade ?  Did the Brigade bring its own Postal Unit or was a postal detachment supplied from Aden/Bahrain ?

It is not until June 1958 that there is a mention of a 24 Independent Infantry Brigade Postal Unit coming under command of the Brigade - that was when the Brigade moved from the UK to Kenya.  There is also a corresponding reference in the Home Postal Depot Historical Report file (TNA reference WO305/820) which covered the period 1 April 1958 - 31 March 1959 that 24 Independent Infantry Brigade Group Postal Unit had been formed at the Depot on 1 June 1958 for service in East Africa, Aden and East Africa again.  This seems to indicate that there was not a Brigade Postal Unit before June 1958.

As for datestamp FPO 551 there is a general recording for this datestamp during the period 10 SP 53 - 9 DE 56 for "BAHRAIN, MUSCAT & DUBAI MEAF 24 Sharjah".  This does need to be broken down.  

However, this does not bring us any closer to solving the puzzle !  

I am convinced (but with no evidence) that with the arrival of 24 Brigade HQ there would have been an FPO established and it is likely from the available evidence of FPO postmarked that this was provided by the Middle East postal service.  What we require is a complete breakdown of FPOs recorded from Sharjah during this period (with details of senders addresses) along with any recording from Bahrain (or other Middle East location) during the same period.  If there is a mix and match it is likely that mail was sent to Bahrain for cancelling, if not it is indicative of a Forces Post Office having been established at Sharjah.

My apologies for this long rambling and I hope I have not confused anyone (least of all myself), but I do hope that it proves useful.

Regards, Mike
8)
#919


Just shows you how long it has been since I last ventured to The National Archives - my Reader's Ticket expired March 2011 !!

I will have to go through the process of re-newing my ticket and then ordering the required documents - good job Tuesday is a 7pm closing time !

Regards, Mike  ;D
#920
Khalid

I am hoping to go to The National Archives on Tuesday and I have already searched the Catalogue for likely references.  Lets see what I can find (lets hope I can find something which supports one theory or another !).

I will report back !

Regards, Mike  ;)
#921
Khalid

Thank you for the further information and illustration. 

I cannot really add to what I have stated - as yet there is no documentary evidence to support that either mail from Sharjah was sent to Bahrain for cancellation or when a BFPO was opened in Sharjah.  I feel that research at The National Archives (TNA) is necessary to look through any records relating to RAF Sharjah at that time (e.g. Operational Record Book) or possibly to see of there are Quarterly Historical Reports for the Army postal unit (not all Army QHRs have been kept and the unit may have been too small to have such a document).  There might be other units records which might assist (such as those relating to HQ 24 Independent Infantry Brigade) or even a reference in any form Middle East Command general routine orders.  This is something I will look into when I next go to TNA at Kew.

On the face of what you have shown me I would say that FPO 551 was used at Sharjah, but I could be wrong as that is only one cover - it is a case of collecting all individual recordings of mail from both Bahrain and Sharjah to see what patterns emerge.  It is, of course, possible that FPO 551 could have been used at both locations at the same time - in a dateatmp set there are usually two datestamps of the same number - one for use on the counter and the other for use in the sorting office to cancel mail.

I am at present keeping an open mind as to when an actual BFPO opened in Sharjah - I would like to see some documentary evidence to support to support one theory or the other !

Regards, Mike
:)
#922
Khalid

Post-WW2 postal services to the RAF overseas were provided by the Royal Engineers (Postal Section) and when a system of address indicator numbers was introduced in the Middle East in April 1946, RAF Bahrain was allocated the address indicator Middle East Air Force 20 (MEAF 20).  However, in 1951 it became MEAF 24 along with RAF Sharjah (the Post Office Circular of 17 January 1951 (as an amendment to Counter Compendium Postal Supplement No 6) refers).

In 1956 with the introduction of British Forces Post Office (BFPO) numbers Bahrain became BFPO 63 and Sharjah became BFPO 64.  These replaced the previous MEAF 24 address (Post Office Circular of 7 March 1956 (as an amendment to July 1955 Edition, Post Office Guide) refers).  A further mention in the Post Office Circular dated 21 March 1956 stated that telegrams could now be accepted for BFPO 64.

I would surmise that with the introduction of a separate address for Sharjah, especially stating that it could accept telegrams, would suggest that an actual British Forces Post Office was in operation there (as opposed to the BFPO indicator number being a mailing address only).  Therefore a datestamp would be in use as from 1956.  The recording in Proud's Volume III is a record of earliest and latest dates recorded from that location, not definitive opening and closing dates.  We are, therefore, looking for recordings of FPO 936 earlier than the earliest recording by Proud (of 3 January 1957).

As Proud states in his Preface (p.5) "Other dates, obtained from actual correspondence, etc, are given in brackets and therefore can probably be extended."

Regards, Mike  :)