As you will have seen from an email I sent out on 29th October the Society is moving to a new website and with it will be a "Members Area" with a new Forum.  As a result this Forum will close and whilst it will still be made available to view it will be a [b]read only[/b] facility only.  All new posts will be on our new forum on our new website.

It is therefore strongly suggested that you do not start any new topics until we move over to our new website - by all means respond to existing topics.  Please be aware that once we move over to our new website this forum, whilst still available to view, will be a [b]read only[/b] facility.

Thank you, Michael Dobbs (Hon Secretary)

Nick & Peter

[b]52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division[/b]

A recent visit to The National Archives has enabled me to have another look at 1943 War Diaries relating to the above Division as follows:

• WO166/10628 - HQ 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division - G Branch
• WO166/10636 - 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division Postal Unit RE

The October 1943 G Branch War Diary shows that the Division was involved in Exercise GOLIATH II from 10 to 31 October 1943:

• Part I run by the Division (10-20 October)
• Part II run by HQ Scottish Command (21-31 October)

Divisional HQ was at Aberlour during the period January to November 1943 but on 10 November the HQ moved to Broughty Ferry.  The Division Location Statement as at 23 November 1943 shows that Divisional HQ and those units associated with the Divisional title used the HOME FORCES address.  It also showed that the Postal Unit was located at 79 Brook Street, Broughty Ferry, Angus.

The Postal Unit War Diary as previously explained shows for each day from January to December 1943 (except for two entries given below) "Routine - Services normal".  The two entries were:

• 10 November 1943 - Unit location closes Aberlour, re-opens Broughty Ferry.  Otherwise same as before.

• 21 December 1943 - Orders received from War Office for this unit to mobilise under 79/MOB/5793/143 (AG5 MOB) dated 18 December 1943.  Unit to be complete to War Establishment, less 1st reinforcements in accordance with normal G1098 plus G1098/20 by 0001 hours 27 January 1944.  Otherwise same as before.

There was also a small typewritten note of apology dated 5 June 1943 sent by Lieutenant S.E. Lawrenson RE, Officer Commanding the Postal Unit to the Librarian and Archivist at The War Office regretting that the War Diary for April was not despatched in accordance with ACI (Army Council Instruction) 2044/41!

The datestamp recordings I referred to in my previous response show that the Divisional Postal Unit was issued with five datestamps on 26 June 1943 (this was the usual number allocated to a divisional postal unit) as follows:

FIELD POST OFFICE 227, 228, 230, 231, 463

They were all ex-3rd Infantry Division Postal Unit.

This does not answer the query raised by Peter but confirms the allocation of FPO 463 - unless this is the "second" 463 used elsewhere?? (We see after the war that GPO Proof Books usually show two datestamps per FPO number and I presume that was also the case for the WW2 FPO datestamps).

We need other recordings for FPO 463 - a query for the Journal perhaps?

Mike

Ross

I have very recently purchased an item (front only from an Air Letter sheet) which has the 3AS India stamp cancelled with the B-1 mark.  The reverse of the piece shows the sender to be a Driver (922929) with the IAOC (Indian Army Ordnance Corps?) with 20 Ind Mob W/S Coy (50 Indian Mobile Workshop Company) Middle East Force, c/o Base Air Postal Depot, Karachi and addressed to Gurjala, Gurjala Post, Guntur Dist, India.

The page on which it came had the following write-up: "B-1" killer: an old Bombay mark brought back into use during World War II.  Originally used from around 1873 until the 1880's.

Does not fully answer your query, but I hope you find it useful.

Mike

Peter / Nick

The listing of FPO 463 by Proud comes from what I call a "semi-official" list I have, typed by someone unknown, when unknown - I haver a carbon copy on foolscap paper.  The information listed clearly comes from official records - FPO 463 is shown as follows:

10.7.40  3 Div
26.6.43  Trans to 52 Div
4.8.44  D.52

I have no recorded dates of use for this FPO.

I have attached an Order of Battle (ORBAT) for 52nd Division and also extracts from the Postal Unit War Diary.  As you will see, particularly from the latter, they have provided very little information.  Incidently the reference to FPOs 191 to 195 does not refer to datestamps but to the actual office designations.  Before the Breitish Army adopted designations such as D for Division and B for Brigade numbers it appears they simply designated Field Post Offices with a number.

It may not provide a full answer but may assist in some way.

Mike

Colin

Sorry for the delay, been extremely busy with both family and society issues lately.  Geoff Hanney has given me the following response:

Type A2 – 2889  there is nothing recorded although the one's around that number are in Egypt.

Not manged to find the card with FPO 151 on as yet to see if that has any additional information.

Sadly nothing definite, Mike

Ross

Not able to provide very much help, sorry - Alistair Kennedy's WW2 Army censor listing shows (as sent in by Geoff Hanney):

Type A2  - 191    there is record which appears to be ROC H173 but not sure what means although has the unit as the 5th Suffolk

Mike

ony

I can provide the following information:

Infantry Regiments
Battalion
Company
Platoon
Section

Engineer Regiments
Signal Regiments
Cavalry/Armoured Regiments
Squadron
Troop

Artillery Regiments
Battery
Troop


See - https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/army-organisation
As you say, not a simple answer!

Mike

I have received the following enquiry:

[color=maroon]I wonder if you may be able to help me. I am researching the history of a local EWT Nature Reserve that was formerly a mine depot. Did the RNAD Wrabness Mine Depot c1918-1963 at Wrabness near Harwich have its own post office. c160 staff were employed under a Naval Commander. I have obtained faded site plans but am unable to ascertain if any of the buildings were a PO.
Mail must have been sent and received from this important site

Thank you Kevin Marsden Chair EWT Tendring Group[/color]

Geoff Hanney responded to me as follows (and I have passed this on):

[color=teal]It was unlikely that the Post Office ran an Office within the Establishment and I have no record of anything for this site to date in my research.
It is likely as you said it would have had Post Room run by the Navy to sort any mail for the site and work with Post Office or their own courier (Postal) System.
I have been through the list of Navy Shore Establishments at Harwich. Not found a clear candidate for the name of Navy Ship for the establishment.
It might be it was counted as sub-area of Harwich and not separate establishment. It might be that had several names over the years it was open.
For information there was Post Office in the village of Wrabness from 1895 to 2008.
I will do bit more digging later in the week even it is just helps me straighten out in my research for that part of Essex.[/color]

Does anyone else have any information on the Wrabness Mine Depot that would be useful to both Kevin Marsden and Geoff Hanney please?  In particular as a naval depot did it carry an HMS name?

Thanks, Mike 

I cannot answer the queries but I agree with Neil that there is an unidentified FPO cancellation on the printed REGISTRATION THREE PENCE stamp of 2 DE 41 and I suspect that the ARMY POST OFFICE cancellation is BASE ARMY POST OFFICE - number not known, but I suspect it is BASE ARMY POST OFFICE 4.

I don't hold Alistair's censorship ledger as that is now with Geoff Hanney (who is looking to see if it can be scanned so that someone does not have to hold the large and very heavy ledger)who I think also has Alistairs index cards for WW2 FPOs.  I will email him to ask if he can assist (he does not use the Forum).

Mike

We had a meeting back in June where members were encouraged to bring along and show any material relating to "India".  Unfortunately member Bill Downes was unable to come to the meeting but he did have a query - some years ago he acquired some covers sent to a Surgeon Major E Dixon in Madras 1872 to 1885.  He asks if anyone can advise him how to find out more details on Surgeon Major Dixon.  Scans of the covers attached.

Thanks, Mike

I have received the enquiry below from Belgium

I suspect that the letters HD do represent Home Depot (the only other potential alternative is Home Defence but I don't think that is appropriate for the BEF in France).

I am aware that in post-WW2 days the bag seals equated to FPO datestamp numbers, but I do not know the procedure in WW1.

Does anyone have any knowledge of FPO lead seals?

Thanks, Mike

[color=maroon]I got your website from someone at The Postal Museum.

I'm an archaeologist from Flanders and I work for the company RAAP. During a research in Vlamertinge, a borough of Ypres, we found some square lead seals. I did not find much about them on the internet, other than that they're lead seals from the General Post Office (they are called GPO bag seals).

During World War I there was a British depot and camp at the find location from 1917 onwards. Also, Vlamertinge is listed on a diagram of the mail routes as an army post office (POST47/1017). I therefore wondered if the seals could possibly be linked to this camp. On 2 of the bag seals it says "HD 26". At first I thought it the letters stood for Huddersfield but somebody from the Postal Museum pointed out that HD could also stand for "Home Depot". But I can't find anything about the number 26.

I was wondering if you have more knowledge about this? What could HD26 refer to? If you like I could send you a picture of the bag seals.

I would like to thank you for your answer on beforehand.[/color]

[b]FIELD POST OFFICE 606[/b]

I have a query concerning the above FPO datestamp and I seek your help please.

I have a registered cover postmarked FPO 606 on 29 SP 49 (29 September 1949).  This has a registration label with a rubber cachet '1' stamped on it.  This would indicate the Field Post Office being BAOR 1 at Bad Oeynhausen (which used the address BAOR 1 from c.1947 to 1954).  Unfortunately there is no senders address on the reverse or any other indication as to the location of the FPO datestamp.

Proud Volume III shows:
APO E.612 (Dusseldorf) (30.10.45) - (5.9.46)
Held at Zone Postal Depot (16.3.48) - (27.11.48)
Berlin (BAOR 2) (31.7.50) - (15.5.52)

Alan Brown records show:
BAOR           1948-50
BAOR 2 Berlin   22/10/50, 30/9/51, 14/11/51

Alistair Kennedy record cards only show:
BAOR 2 Berlin   1950-51, 17 AU 50, 22 AU 50, 11 MR 51

As you can see there is no location shown for 1949.  Do any members have any covers with FPO 606 used in 1949 and if so do they provide any senders details please?

Thanks, Mike

Sorry Neil, not seen anything like this before.

Mike

Tommy

Please see the topic heading "[b]ON SERVICE machine cancellation 1943[/b]" started by John Cranmer on 16 January 2023 (and last updated 8 March 2023).  His query was about the very same cancellation, but his is dated OCT 13 1943.  It is a Canadian cancellation. 

Mike

Hi all

During my visit to The National Archives in May this year I was able to look at two War Diaries associated with British Guiana:

WO 176/20 - War Diary: Caribbean - Headquarters British Guiana (Sep 1939 - Dec 1941)
WO 176/21 - War Diary: Caribbean - British Guiana Militia (Jan-Sep 1942)

File WO 176/20:
1 Jan 1939 Active Militia mobilised
4 Sep 1940 USA obtained a lease for an airbase
9 Sep 1940 Volunteer Defence Corps formed
14 Oct 1940 US Mission arrived; Admiral Greenslade in charge
3 Feb 1941 Militia Coast Artillery formed
18 Dec 1941 Command of troops and responsibility for defence of Colony taken over by OC US Base Command

No mention of British units

File WO 176/21:
There is mention of a small detachment (2 Officers, 32 NCOs) of the Veteran Guard of Canada who reported for duty with the Ships' Guard Unit towards the end of June 1942.  This was responsible for guards on vessels anchored in the Port of Georgetown; also sent a detachment to Mackenzie.

No mention of British units

There was no mention of any British troops in either file (September 1939 to September 1942) - I do wonder if the censor stamps were issued to British Guiana units?

I have now responded to the person making the enquiry and asked if he can identify where the various covers were addressed to - British Guiana or the UK?

I hope to visit The National Archives again soon and look at further War Diaries to see if there was any mention of British soldiers seconded to British Guiana later in the war.  If anyone else has anything to add please do respond.

Thanks, Mike