As you will have seen from an email I sent out on 29th October the Society is moving to a new website and with it will be a "Members Area" with a new Forum.  As a result this Forum will close and whilst it will still be made available to view it will be a [b]read only[/b] facility only.  All new posts will be on our new forum on our new website.

It is therefore strongly suggested that you do not start any new topics until we move over to our new website - by all means respond to existing topics.  Please be aware that once we move over to our new website this forum, whilst still available to view, will be a [b]read only[/b] facility.

Thank you, Michael Dobbs (Hon Secretary)

Nick & Peter

[b]52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division[/b]

A recent visit to The National Archives has enabled me to have another look at 1943 War Diaries relating to the above Division as follows:

• WO166/10628 - HQ 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division - G Branch
• WO166/10636 - 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division Postal Unit RE

The October 1943 G Branch War Diary shows that the Division was involved in Exercise GOLIATH II from 10 to 31 October 1943:

• Part I run by the Division (10-20 October)
• Part II run by HQ Scottish Command (21-31 October)

Divisional HQ was at Aberlour during the period January to November 1943 but on 10 November the HQ moved to Broughty Ferry.  The Division Location Statement as at 23 November 1943 shows that Divisional HQ and those units associated with the Divisional title used the HOME FORCES address.  It also showed that the Postal Unit was located at 79 Brook Street, Broughty Ferry, Angus.

The Postal Unit War Diary as previously explained shows for each day from January to December 1943 (except for two entries given below) "Routine - Services normal".  The two entries were:

• 10 November 1943 - Unit location closes Aberlour, re-opens Broughty Ferry.  Otherwise same as before.

• 21 December 1943 - Orders received from War Office for this unit to mobilise under 79/MOB/5793/143 (AG5 MOB) dated 18 December 1943.  Unit to be complete to War Establishment, less 1st reinforcements in accordance with normal G1098 plus G1098/20 by 0001 hours 27 January 1944.  Otherwise same as before.

There was also a small typewritten note of apology dated 5 June 1943 sent by Lieutenant S.E. Lawrenson RE, Officer Commanding the Postal Unit to the Librarian and Archivist at The War Office regretting that the War Diary for April was not despatched in accordance with ACI (Army Council Instruction) 2044/41!

The datestamp recordings I referred to in my previous response show that the Divisional Postal Unit was issued with five datestamps on 26 June 1943 (this was the usual number allocated to a divisional postal unit) as follows:

FIELD POST OFFICE 227, 228, 230, 231, 463

They were all ex-3rd Infantry Division Postal Unit.

This does not answer the query raised by Peter but confirms the allocation of FPO 463 - unless this is the "second" 463 used elsewhere?? (We see after the war that GPO Proof Books usually show two datestamps per FPO number and I presume that was also the case for the WW2 FPO datestamps).

We need other recordings for FPO 463 - a query for the Journal perhaps?

Mike

Hi Alan,

Thank you for this, I have had another look at the censor cachet and this could be either 2580 or 2680, but the point on Waynes records clearly I would suggest makes this 2580.

Additionally I located my copy of Proud SA APS which does have this listed with the 1st South African Infantry recorded used for 19 days only between May and June 1916 with the cover being in the period he lists as Ploegsteert in Belgium, before a final few days in France.

I can read the Passed by Censor J.W. Bryant, however I can only find a Private with the South African Infantry, killed in July 1916 in the Somme region. I can not make out what is written above 'passed by censor'.

Thanks for your help.

Just trying to do the logic on this one and the fact that so many countries are thrown into the discussion confuses the basics for me.

It was posted in Canada (On Service datestamp) and held for censorship in Canada (security cachet - see attached examples) and went to Australia. So the question is how the cover came to be in Canada and receive the RAF Censor. If it was mailed in a convoy, why routed to Canada and not back through the UK like the majority of convoy covers, even with the Australia address this would have been normally unloaded at a port and then routed back through the UK.

This falls into the period of RAF reinforcements to West Africa and the date fits in with other records on the Gold Coast. At the same time the RAF and BOAC crew were flying the West African reinforcement route.

I am inclined to say the censor was used in the Gold Coast?

Wayne Schnarr has 2680 recorded as the Royal Canadian Regiment. Nothing in Daniel or AK's ledger

However, the ledger records No 2580 with FPO99 in September 1916 (1st Security Period), which Proud allocates to the 1st South African Brigade. I don't have a copy of the South African Army Postal Service to check further

Alan,

I think this reads 2680.

Peter

If I'm reading the Postal Unit War Diary correctly, it appears they were at Aberlour at the time in question.I can see from Google Maps that is about 50 kms north east of Aviemore (THE Aviemore - the one in Scotland....). Wouldn't you say, then, that there is still the problem of accounting for the use of an FPO in West Africa, when it was allegedly in the custody of (?) 52 Div in Scotland?

chrs
N

Can you make out the CM No?

Ross

I have very recently purchased an item (front only from an Air Letter sheet) which has the 3AS India stamp cancelled with the B-1 mark.  The reverse of the piece shows the sender to be a Driver (922929) with the IAOC (Indian Army Ordnance Corps?) with 20 Ind Mob W/S Coy (50 Indian Mobile Workshop Company) Middle East Force, c/o Base Air Postal Depot, Karachi and addressed to Gurjala, Gurjala Post, Guntur Dist, India.

The page on which it came had the following write-up: "B-1" killer: an old Bombay mark brought back into use during World War II.  Originally used from around 1873 until the 1880's.

Does not fully answer your query, but I hope you find it useful.

Mike

Peter / Nick

The listing of FPO 463 by Proud comes from what I call a "semi-official" list I have, typed by someone unknown, when unknown - I haver a carbon copy on foolscap paper.  The information listed clearly comes from official records - FPO 463 is shown as follows:

10.7.40  3 Div
26.6.43  Trans to 52 Div
4.8.44  D.52

I have no recorded dates of use for this FPO.

I have attached an Order of Battle (ORBAT) for 52nd Division and also extracts from the Postal Unit War Diary.  As you will see, particularly from the latter, they have provided very little information.  Incidently the reference to FPOs 191 to 195 does not refer to datestamps but to the actual office designations.  Before the Breitish Army adopted designations such as D for Division and B for Brigade numbers it appears they simply designated Field Post Offices with a number.

It may not provide a full answer but may assist in some way.

Mike