when is a military cover not a military cover?

[Tony Walker]

Here isn't my cover for the day

I have an interesting cover, addressed to a Capt. E J Taylor of the Cheshire Regiment at Raniket in India, sent from the Turks and Caicos Islands on 18 May 1899.  And there the military interest ends.  None of the cover markings, and there are several, are of military significance.  Is this an item of military postal history?

Be careful how you answer 'cause the item was the subject of a three page article in the BWISC (British West Indies Study Circle) Bulletin with contributions from some very senior PH's and you might get landed with it on the Forum (probably too long), or the Journal

Keep healthy everyone
Cheers
Tony

[Nick Colley]

Is that really the right question, Tony?

Surely the correct question is: Is this a desirable, and hence marketable and collectible item of postal history?

In other words: is there a collector out there who has a collection into which it fits (from his/her point of view) - whether it be T&C, military, India, or even Cheshire Regiment.....

?
chrs
N

[Tony Walker]

Well maybe Nick.

It is very much part of my Turks and Caicos Islands collection (stamps and postal history).  It represents a fascinating route with associated marks and cancels.

With the daily covers on the Forum I wondered whether it would be classified as a FPHS item as well as a T&CIls one

Cheers
Tony

[Michael Dobbs]

Tony

Well, no one has questioned my cover of the day on 29th March - a simple black borders cover postmarked Spilsby in Lincolnshire in 1885 and addressed to a Captain Buckle RN aboard HMS Invincible in Malta.  And there the military interest ends.  There are no other postal or other markings.  However, I still consider it to be "Forces" mail as it is addressed to a naval officer aboard a ship at an overseas port.  If it is not considered to be forces material then any cover to a serving soldier, sailor, etc from home is equally not "forces mail" - and that is something I would dispute!

Mike  ;)

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hi Tony

As Mike says if its addressed to a Military Man its, Forces Postal History. 

Please scan and show us the cover.

Chris

[Nick Colley]

Yes, let's see it!  8)

chrs
N

[Peter Harvey]

Yes - Military postal history

Yes - Forces Postal History

Yes - Turks & Caicos Postal History

Yes - Lets see the cover please

On a different note, Chris Weddell posted a cover yesterday that he referred to as an 'Undercover Address', now when is a undercover address just a forwarding address, or are they both the same - debate?

[Chris Weddell]

Very good point Peter. My view is one which is hold by a number of people and that is undercover mail is sent to one address and then redirected to it's true address.

This is mail that is sent to a serving military member via another address so that you do not disclose any information of where the later is going i.e. Unit locations which would be useful to the enemy. You see mail sent from aboard sent to family members, Banks and company's then it is readdressed to its true address. I see this a lot in mail mostly from Europe which is going from Axis countries to Great Britain with out using the usual undercover addresses and Post Offices boxes. So in my view undercover mail as it was sent this way to withhold information. This is well known and was advised to be done.

Let me know your views on this subject.   

[Peter Harvey]

Its an interesting point which I have considered many times over the years.

There have always been arrangements to forward mail, both formal and informal, banks I think were often used because in those days customers were known to the bank, and mail could be forwarded to other branches, as well as both private and military addresses. But then you also see lots of Thomas Cook Mail pre war, where they acted as forwarding agents, knowing where people were on their 'grand tour', retreat, travels or vacation.

So it is always to me the opinion of the collector. Charles Entwistles books provide a useful reference, but even some of these I would argue were set up primarily for forwarding purposes, rather than to hide a location or address.

But an interesting discussion. Any other views?

[Tony Walker]

OK, so here's a scan of the cover

It was posted, registered, from the Turks and Caicos Islands on 18 May 1899.  As an item of postal history from here, it is a scarce destination and has some interesting cancellations.  I have been unable to trace a Capt  EJ Taylor via the internet. He could presumably have been army or navy?

The cover went from the T&CIls to Liverpool, reg'd receiving cancel JU 99, and then on to London by rail (4 JU 99), then to France via Calais and then Brindisi where on 12 June it was put on the P&O Steamer SS Clyde and taken via the Suez Canal , to Aden where it arrived on 15 June. From here it went to Bombay and en route received the SEA POST / JU 18 99 cancel, arriving there on 23 June and then to RANIKHET / JU 27/ 99.

One cancel not mentioned is the blank oval on the front with the number 1748 in blue crayon. The only mail service to India was via the Sea Post Office (SPO) with P&O steamers.  The sole purpose of the SPO was to sort and bag the mail so that it could be forwarded quickly to its destination on arrival in Bombay.  The large oval with the 1748 number was to distinguish it from any others.  It is a scarce mark, and my thanks to Clifford Gregory for explaining this.  Registered mail was 'tracked' carefully in case of loss and an insurance claim.

I suppose identifying who Cpt. Taylor was and what he was doing in Ranikhet would be the icing on the cake

Lost a dear friend to the bloody virus last night, a bit of a dampener on the day.

Cheers
Tony

[Alan Baker]

I have found on FWR a Lt Col Edward Thornton Taylor, Cheshire Regiment. There is a copy of his service record there, showing he was born in 1858 in Montreal, married with four children

It does record his Staff Appointment to D (or W) A A B (or G), Rhanikhet, from 15.10.98 - 17.11.04. Can't see any mention of T&CI though

[Alan Baker]

There are also various records of him on Ancestry in the Army Lists during WWI.

Finally, it appears he died on 25th January 1922 at Camp Pakwar, near Mandla, Central Provinces, India

[Peter Harvey]

Well I Googled it and found this web link:

Appointment of Captain E.T. Taylor, 1st Battalion Cheshire Regiment to officiate as Deputy Assistant Adjutant General for Instruction, Ranikhet from the 7th July 1898.

National Archives of India https://abhilekh-patal.in/jspui/handle/123456789/2174666

[Tony Walker]

Thank you guys for all the posts about Capt Taylor.  No doubt it IS a military cover suitable for the  Forum

Cheers
Tony