RAF concave hexagonal censor marks from India WW2

[John Cranmer]

Is there a list of the censor numbers in the concave hexagonal censor marks used by the RAF in India during WW2 and where they were used ?  At the moment I am trying to track down numbers 146 and 391 in particular

Hopefully an on-line list but a literature reference would also be help. 

John

[Nick Colley]

You mean this type (R17), John?

chrs
N

[Nick Colley]

If the marks are indeed type R17, then I can tell you what we know about these two numbers, if that's what you'd like?

No.146: known 18/7/44 to 6/4/45 with RAFPOST India 4, and we have a recording on 1/7/44 with RAFPOST SE ASIA 4. ie Delhi area.

No.391: we have a couple of recordings, both with unclear postmark dates. One is RAFPOST India 5 (Calcutta area), and the other RAFPOST South East Asia 4, Delhi Area. We have a tentative and uncertain attribution to 194 Squadron associated with the RAFPOST India 5 item.

If I can find your e-mail address, I'll write to you about a literature source.

rgds
N

[John Cranmer]

Thank you for those quick replies.  I do not have any reference books for India but type R 17 is what these are.  Perhaps I should have included scans with the first post but I was a bit rushed.  So a bit more info in case it add to our knowledge.

I have 2 covers. Both from a Canadian H (?) A. Ball with the RAF in India addressed to the same person in Canada. The first an air mail when he was a warrant officer service number R97163.  So far I have found no reference to this person.

Scans of the front and back are attached. This cover has been affected by water.  The post marks are unreadable.  The return address on the reverse appears to be from 194 squadron although the 4 is not at all clear.  According to The RAF Squadrons - Jefford the only other possibility was 191 Squadron but I tended to think 4.  The R17 censor is number 391.

A manuscript note on on the reverse says to "Salved from water" with no other explanation except for the signature of James Woodcock, Bermuda,  Kay ?  Was this where the water damage occurred ?

The preview function of this forum is not showing the attachments so I will put the second cover in a following post.

John

[John Cranmer]

OK now I can see what that post looks like so this is the second cover which was sent by surface mail. 

The postmarks are dated 23rd October 1944 and there is a 4 which can be made out over SOUTH.  By the time this was written Ball had been promoted to Pilot Officer service number J88438(?) the last digit is not totally clear.  The R17 censor cachet number is 146.

Unfortunately the return address on the reverse does not show the squadron and there is nothing on the reverse other than this address. 

John. 

[Nick Colley]

John, I quite agree the postmarks on the first item are indeed illegible. As regards the water staining, I don't know is my answer. The 'Salvaged from the water' endorsement appears not to be same hand as the hand that wrote James Woodcock's name and (partial?) address. Flying Officer Woodcock's relationship with the cover is hard to guess.

As regards the second item, yes, I think you've said all we can determine about that one.

It would be nice if someone can pick up on F/O James Woodcock (Alan: hint!).

chrs
N.

[John Cranmer]

Nick

My thought re the water was that this happened in Bermuda somehow and that the inscription by Woodcock was added there - I cannot see any other reason for that inscription but I am not 100% on this.

Can I ask again if there is a published list of the Indian RAF censors and their locations.  I had also asked the question re the location of the censors in the Stampboards forum and had this reply.

"Your censors are designated type R17. R17/146 was used in Delhi, as was R17/391, although there is also a record of it possibly in use by 194 Squadron, Calcutta. Its unusual for RAF censors to be attributable to a particular unit - most are listed as places."

AQ

[Nick Colley]

Yes, sorry, John, I said I'd e-mail you when I found your e-mail address. I've now found it, so will send you the promised mail after dinner.

chrs
N

[Tony Walker]

There's a fine book by Hoggarth and Gwynn called MARITIME DISASTER MAIL published by the Rossiter Trust.  If the water staining arose from a maritime incident it might just be recorded there

[Peter Harvey]

Hi Both,

Forces War Records have a single RAF Warrant Officer H. J. Ball missing, presumed KIA
reference  AMCC_1946 dated September 1946.

Also I think the other writing is F.A. James Woodcock and not F.O. - as a noted an RAF officer would typically abbreviate Flying Officer as F/O and not with the fall stops.

Pete

[John Cranmer]

Thanks for the replies.

[b]Tony.[/b]  I had wondered if it was just a small incident something like a single bag of mail dropped into the sea during transfer with only a few items affected and that did not justify the use of a larger handstamp of some sort.  I will have a look for that book but it is going to be well of topic for what I collect.

[b]Peter.[/b]  I do not have access to the Forces War Records site but Ball is not in the list of RCAF dead "They Shall Grow Old Not" .  It is not an uncommon surname but the rank and initials narrow it down a lot more.  However by the time the second letter was written Ball had been promoted to Flying Officer (J 88438) I think the last numeral is an 8 and if he was KIA that would be the rank given.  If the Forces War Records lists the service number that would tie it all up. 

Re the manuscript message.  I did think about that but thought that it was unlikely that someone would write their name as F.O (A). James Woodcock over three lines so I do not know.  If you look at those initials upside down they appear to be a clear underlined D F.  Not that that helps me much.

John

Ball .