Mystery Naval cover July 1917

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hi All

Help appreciated with this cover.

Cancelled standard RFHM Ships 26th July 1917

Cheers

Chris

[Alan Baker]

It looks like several of the censors illustrated in Dr Gould's book (section 4c) but without the measurements it is difficult to know which one. If you can put a ruler on it and post your findings, I will check up

The handwritten note at the side is interesting

[Chris Grimshaw]

Thanks Alan

Will measure and report back.

Chris

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hi Alan


Finally found my copy of "Gould" and have measured the censor mark.

I think it's 4C323 if I understand the table correctly.

L = 68mm, H = 4.45mm

P BY = 37mm, PC = 40.5mm

Allocated to Victorious.

Censors initials are R M I think.

Over to our Navel experts. Was Victorious in the Med in July 1917.

Cheers

Chris

[Alan Baker]

There is no mention of Victorious in "The Royal Navy in the Mediterranean, 1915-1918" edited by Paul Halpern.

In Jellicoe's "Grand Fleet", she is mentioned twice, both times at Scapa Flow. On the second occasion, she was used as an accommodation ship for dockyard workers carrying out repairs after Jutland.

[Chris Grimshaw]

Thanks Alan

I'll have another look at Gould.

Cheers

Chris

[Tony Walker]

Hi Chris

I have a cover from Victorious probably at Ramsgate very early in the war, 1 Dec 1914, and note she arrived at Scapa Flow in March 1916 as a depot and repair ship as mentioned by Alan.  There is then a gap in my covers until 1 July 1918.

The Grand Fleet mostly left Scapa for Rosyth by April 1918, and Victorious took over Fleet mail Office duties following the departure of HMS Imperieuse.  The earliest cancel in this capacity is 26 June 1918 which was probably when Imperieuse left.  You do therefore find a fair selection of covers from Victorious identified by the particular configuration of the Krag machine cancellation (Victorious took over the Krag machine from Imperieuse) but with censor marks from other ships who then passed the letters to Vic for cancellation.

Victorious was recorded back in Ramsgate August 1919

Not sure about your 4C323.  You have the P - B measurement as 37mm, that's well off Goulds 29mm, although your other dims are spot on.  I think the 37mm needs checking, I think you may have measured from the P to the Y, which is 37mm on my example.  Upright of P to upright of B should be 29mm.  Censors initials C.S.S.P.  Assuming yours is 29mm it looks like it's from Victorious


Not really moved it forward, we need a cover from Vic during 1917 with place of origin confirmed.  Not sure why she would have gone to the Med for a year or so.

I must post queries about my fascinating Gallipoli covers.....

[Alan Baker]

On the website www.worldwar1.co.uk the last note against Victorious says "22nd February 1916 Repair Ship Grand Fleet". The "1922 sold for scrap"

Not sure she would have made it to the Med

[Chris Grimshaw]

Measurement from the left side of P to left side of B is indeed 29 mm.

Think I'll write up as unknown.

Chris

[Michael Gould]

I hate these 4C300 series marks! It is safe to say that it is not Victorious. Have you checked it against the illustrations given in the Journal article some time back? Failing that I will look at it if you send me a to-size copy. It is impossible with this group of marks to work off internet scans there are just too many of them. Michael NB it can always be a new mark in this group, I am constantly finding them.