RNAS Armoured Cars in Russia

[Tony Walker]

Still beavering away at this topic.

Sifting through some family papers I find my father volunteered to fight with the British Navy on 29 January 1917.

He appeared to have volunteered for Locker Lampsons Armoured Car Division (my father, a mechanic, lived in Norfolk, the main area of recruitment for Locker Lampson, and would almost certainly have known several people already fighting with the armoured cars in Russia).

I have a photograph album of 150 numbered photographs he took throughout his spell in Russia but unfortunately the accompanying list saying where they were taken has long since disappeared.  However there are two telegrams he sent, one from Liverpool on 25 June 1917 saying : 'Going on board expect to sail tonight'.  Some of the first photos in the album show him on board ship where the name 'GABRIEL' can be seen.

HMS Gabriel was a Destroyer Leader.  [b]Would she have transported troops to Russia?[/b]  There is another telegram sent from Archangel dated 17 July 1917 stating ' Arrived safely'.  I imagine the troops were additional volunteers to boost numbers for the AC Division which was fighting ferociously on the Galicia front at that time.

I have a way to go on this one as there is another telegram from Leith 8 Feb 1918 saying 'arrived Scotland safely later time arrival home probably Saturday'.

I attach a couple of scans to lighten up the text

I have the following reference material I am using :

The Czar's British Squadron by Bryan Perrett and Anthony Lord, from which most (all) other published material I have found appears to be based upon.  The internet has some information, but not a great deal.  Any further references members may know of would be appreciated

Cheers
Tony

[Tony Walker]

I meant to post two DIFFERENT attachments !

[Frank Schofield]

Tony
Having difficulty in making the ship in the photograph a destroyer, seems to be a lot of deck space, which destroyers do not have, there are possibly two British sailors in the group, but they could be going to join HMS Glory or other ships which were already in Russia.
HMS Gabriel, according to Dittmar & Colledge served the whole of 1917 in the 13th Destroyer Flotilla, based at Rosyth, would the Admiralty sent a ship around the top of Scotland, down to Liverpool, when it would be quicker to send the party overland by rail to Rosyth to meet the ship there? she was converted in August 1918 to a minelayer to carry 'M' type sinker mines.
I can only find a single reference to a S.S. Gabriel on the Naval History Net web site on the pages of HMAS Una, she was in late December 1917, operating around the New Guinea area, could she have made a Russian round trip in June /July 1917 and still got out the Australian Station by December, a bit tight time wise.
Hope observations of some use
Frank Schofield

[Tony Walker]

Hi Frank

Thanks for that

There are several photographs in the album showing the trip from Liverpool to Archangel, taken from whichever ship my father was on.  However the photos have deteriorated through time, and the one I posted I had had enhanced.  However I'll send you via normal mail, photocopies of the others which might provide more information.

I am piecing together a fascinating record of his time with the armoured car division, including their 'capture' by the Bolsheviks and their rescue of an aristocratic family.

Cheers
Tony

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hello Tony

A fascinating topic, outside my field of collecting, (sticking with (Southern Russia in 1919/20 and the Black Sea) but very interesting.

I can probally help with research if you have any names of men involved though, keep up the posts.

Chris

[Nick Colley]

Are we sure the item labelled 'GABRIEL' is a piece of the vessel's equipment ? If we think it is, why is it not labelled H.M.S.Gabriel, or S.S.Gabriel ?

A destroyer transporting RNAS armoured cars and personnel to Russia (or anywhere else) doesn't sound right, really, does it ? No room on the upper deck for motor vehicles, surely ?

Sorry I can't add more of any substance.

chrs
N

[Frank Schofield]

Nick

Could be the British Army habit of naming  a vehicle, in my Regiment (4th RTR) all our tanks carried names, i.e. the  4th was formed from 'D' Battalion Tank Corps in WW1, so all carried the names beginning with 'D' Could be as simple as that.

Frank Schofield

[Tony Walker]

Hi Nick et al

I have found another photo taken on board the ship which left Liverpool on 25 June 1917, bound for Archangel, with new recruits for the Armoured Car Division on board, and no doubt supplies and maybe some cars for the Division.

I think you may be right, the photo looks to have the word GABRIEL on a panel or item of equipment stowed on deck, and not part of the actual ship.  The photos have deteriorated over the last 100 years, but you can make out the name.

Also scanned is another photo taken on board showing some fairly substantial guns, not probably what you'd find on a destroyer (there was a destroyer named Gabriel).  Is it possible to find out the names of vessels departing Liverpool on 25 or perhaps 26 June 1917, bound for Archangel which would have carried this type of armament?  The ship arrived on 11 July 1917 (not 17 July as I mentioned earlier in this topic).

SS Umona was the main transport operating this route, but photos taken later as the ship enters Archangel show a steamship at anchor very similar to Umona, so we can probably rule her out anyway.

Any help much appreciated

Cheers
Tony

[Frank Schofield]

Tony

The gun looks similar to the 3in or 4in  naval guns fitted to Merchant ships during WW1

Frank Schofield

[Colin Tabeart]

Not any help but the ship in question is definitely not a warship, says ten quid to 5p! The spar the blokes are sitting on looks like a merchant ship's derrick for hoisting cargo in or out of the ship. GABRIEL is a common enough name for a ship - must have been several of them around, but I do not think it is the name of the ship - why stick it on a gash piece of kit lying around on the deck? Re identifying the ship I doubt very much if contemporary newspapers would have been allowed to give lists of vessels sailing from any port so it would mean checking some fundamental sources. And if (as was probable) it was a convoy being formed up in Liverpool for Archangel which ship of the convoy do you pick?

[Robin Davis]

Hello Tony,

I do not know if this information is of any help but on the Imperial War Museum web site they have around 130 photographs of the Locker Lampson RNACEF in Russia. One of the photos was taken on board the SS Clan Macdonald sailing from Liverpool to Archangel but it say 1916. However when looking through the photos quite a number of them have ? etc against the information or the information is vague, so possibly it might be 1917. Anyway it might be worth you checking out the photos on the site and checking out the ship etc. The web site is:-

    www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205352479

When the page comes up scroll down the page to the Royal Navy Russian ACS and click on it and all the photos then come up spread over a number of pages (ten photos per page). The one with the SS Clan Macdonald is on page 13.

Hope this is of some help or at least of some interest?

Kindest Regards

                    Robin

[Tony Walker]

Hello Robin

It always amazes (and embarrasses) me that people make such an effort to respond to queries on the Forum, and your response is one such.  I will certainly look at the link you kindly provided.  It is embarrassing because I can seldom reciprocate as my knowledge is limited, and my 'surfing' the net abilities are no doubt naive

Thanks again
Tony