Manuscript Naval censor in pencil.

[Chris Weddell]

Hello All,

            A new cover I just got and I am not sure of the censors name. Can anyone make it out or tell me which ship he served on. I have just noticed at the mid bottom of the MA 3 ?? machine cancel a part of a censor mark like a naval crown maybe.

                                                                  Cheers

                                                                    Chris

[Michael Dobbs]

Chris

Cannot add anything as regards Naval officer, but your comment about "just noticed at the mid bottom of the MA 3 ?? machine cancel a part of a censor mark like a naval crown maybe" is a bit confusing - I see it as a date 12 MAR with a cross (also part of the Krag machine postmark) below the A of MAR in the first date segment of the continuous Krag postmark.  This can be quite normal, appears in one date segment but not the other.  Am I missing something ?

Mike  :)

[Chris Weddell]

Mike,

        If you look under the R.N.V.R. pen written inscription then look to the last bar of the machine cancel you well see the crown. It does not show up well in the scan but it shows much better on the cover which I am looking at now. The mark is faint but you can see it.

                                      Cheers

                                        Chris.

[Nick Colley]

To me, the censor's name looks like A.R.Hart, Sub Lt, RNVR.

chrs
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[Chris Weddell]

Nick,

        Thank you. I have found him. Arthur Reginald Hart, Commissioned Temporary Sub Lieutenant RNVR 19/11/15 ; Draft for BEF 2/9/16, joined Hood Battalion 7/9/16-13/11/16 Discharged Dead Killed in Action.

                                                              Cheers

                                                              Chris.

[Chris Weddell]

Nick,

      Just looking at the addressee and the manuscript censor it seems to me the writing is the same ??? Do you think it is self censored.

                                                      Cheers

                                                        Chris

[Chris Weddell]

Mike,

      I have solved the mystery of the crown mark I can see. The part crown mark I can see has come though the envelope from an embossed naval crown on the back of the envelope.

                                            Cheers

                                            Chris. 

[Frank Schofield]

Chris

Surely the machine mark is Gould MA1 (no town or year slugs, the March date is right) which places Hart at Scapa Flow before joining the RND, In the April 1916 (correct to 18th March) Navy list he is listed at the RND Depot at Crystal Palace, the letter is probably letting the young lady in Beckenham know he may be seeing  her soon

There is a picture of A.R Hart (Ex Illustrated  London News) in the book.The Hood Battalion by Leonard Sellers published by Lee Cooper in 1995

Frank Schofield

[Michael Dobbs]

Chris

Glad you solved the conundrum - I blew the scan up and then saw the crown.  I see that our naval experts have managed to provide you with some good answers - teach me to keep away from WW1 naval queries !!  ::) ::)

Mike

[Chris Weddell]

Frank,

        Thank you again for your great help. I will get the Gould classification for machine cancels right one day  :-[. I still have a lot to lean with these marks.

Going though the last of the covers I brought with this one is another from A R Hart as the writing and stationary are the same. There is a faint censor on the bottom left which is endorsed with MP. On the back of the cover is written 6A16 which i think this may well be. 

[Michael Gould]

There is only one potential candidate for the MP frank being Surgeon Miles Prior on Teutonic in the Northern Patrol, so the postmark is correct. No Hart is listed as an officer. I would welcome confirmation of the censor reference. Michael Gould

[Michael Gould]

Your manuscript censor is a decided problem. The naval division was not at Scapa Flow. I have looked at all combinations and the only one I can come up with remotely possible is Albert R Hayes with the motor boat division. If you look at the address his writing is very poor. A manuscript censor is likely for a motor boat and there were at least some if these in the northern islands. Michael Gould

[Chris Weddell]

Michael,

            Thank you for all your help.

                        Chris.

[Michael Gould]

Chris. Looking further at the idea this guy was in the naval division, I think the time line is wrong for him to have been at Scapa. He is listed in my 1915 list as naval division and Frank has got him at Crystal Palace in July 1916. This is going to mean he was on basic training. It is almost certain that he would not have been called on to censor during this training and I also doubt if he could self-censor. In my view, your censor has to be someone else. My suggestion is not ideal when you try to read the name but I see no other explanation which fits the facts we have. Michael

[Chris Weddell]

Michael,

            I will go though my covers and find this one. I will have a look and see if i can see a faint censor mark or anything.

                                                          Chris.