WW2 British naval post office in New York ???

[John Cranmer]

I have been asked if there was a British Naval presence in New York during the early Years of WW2.  As I only collect Canadian material I have no idea.  I wondered if anyone reading this could help.

John

[Michael Dobbs]

According to "Shore Estabkishments of the Royal Navy" (Being a list of the Static Ships and Establishments of the Royal Navy) Compiled by Lt Cdr B Warlow, RN; (pub 1992; Maritime Books):

HMS Saker II, Connecticut Avenue, Washington, USA, commissioned 1 December 1941; became HMS Saker on 1 November 1942
For personnel standing by ships under construction and refit and other unattached personnel in USA.

HMS Saker, commissioned 1 December 1942 (ex Saker II); Senior Officer in New York October 1945; HMS Saker was in Washington 1947-1990 then to Virginia.

HMS Saker II at Quonset Point, Rhode Island, New York (originally HMS Asbury but became HMS Saker II on 31 March 1944)

HMS Asbury, Asbury Park, New Jersey (accommodation) commissioned 1 October 1942 and paid off 29 February 1944.  US Navy Station on Rhode Island (Quonset Point) used by FAA squadrons forming in USA.  Was HMS Saker II to 1 October 1942, then commissioned as an independent command; became HMS Saker II again 31 March 1944.

According to "The Postal History of the Naval and RAF Postal Services" by Edward B. Proud; (pub 1992; Postal History Publishing Co):

Fleet Mail Office No 14 - New York (HMS Saker) recorded used 13 November 1945 - 12 December 1946

So, it doesn't look as thought there was a major RN presence in New York during the early part of WW2.

Mike  :)

[Peter Harvey]

Hi John,

HMS Saker certainly comes to mind and is seen used a great deal as an accommodation address, for mail then forwarded to RN personnel in US Ports. AS Mike says, I do not think there were many service personnel in NY, but the address HMS Saker is certainly not uncommon.

Peter

[John Cranmer]

Thanks for that info I will pass it on.

John

[John Cranmer]

Censor front.jpg[/attach]As a followup to the above I have just come across this cover with one of the common types of Canadian PASSED BY CENSOR naval cachets but which has had the letter C removed from H.M.C.SHIP. 

It was sent to the UK by a Lieutenant Godfrey Hope of the R.N.V.R. on the 7th of June 1943 .  The cover has the return adderss of Barbizon Plaza, New York.

The listing for the cover said that this modified censor cachet was used by the British and only in New York.  Which seems to agree with the return address and the sender being in the Royal Navy. 

So far I have not been able to find anything more about this modified hand stamp or Lt. Hope.  If anyone has any commenat I will be most interested.

John Cranmer

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hello John

An interesting item.  Would be happy to run this as a Query in the Winter Journal if you can put something together.  Unfortunately the Forum only attracts visits from less than 10% of our members.

Chris

[Alan Baker]

I think this is Lt Edward Henry Godfrey Hope, RNVR. He is on FWR and Ancestry but no details of where he served.

It may be that he didn't use his first two forenames or regarded his surname as Godfrey Hope.

The 1939 England and Wales Register gives his address in Sale, Cheshire and his occupation as advertising representative with Amalgamated Pres but also bears the notation RNVSR - Mersey Division. The Navy List of April 1941 gives his appointment as a Temporary Lt in January 1940

[Nick Colley]

Chaps, the Navy List for June 1943 has Lt. Hope serving aboard HMS Asbury. According to the listing compiled by the late Bill Garrard, this was an accommodation barracks at Asbury Park, New Jersey - in agreement with Lt.Cmdr Wardlow's script.

N

[John Cranmer]

Thanks for this extra info.  I have sent some scans to Chris so the new letter may get some more.

John

[John Cranmer]

Looking around a bit more I came across this web page.  Perhaps interesting but not directly relevant to the censor mark on the cover.  Although this G. Hope was also in advertising and is from sale near Manchester so there may be a connection.

https://wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?67333

Part of the account reads

On board the Alcides were Mr. E. H. Godfrey Hope. of 3 Tan-yr-Unto, Deganwy Road, Llandudno, advertising director, of Manchester, and part owner of the boat, which was bought in May and moored at Conway; Mr. W. L. Birch, company director, of Portland Street, Manchester; Mr. R. H. Millington, company director, of Cheadle Hulme, Manchester, and Mr. G. A. Mangoletsi, engineer, of Bowdon. Cheshire. Mr. Hope, who was commissioned in the R.N.V.R. during the war, and Mr. Birch are well-known members of the North Wales Cruising Club, Conway.

John

[John Cranmer]

Chris

A couple more thoughts.  The self censored hand stamp is dated the 26th April 43 while the return address on the reverse is the 7th of June.  and the hand writing seems to be different although there are some similarities.

John

[Alan Baker]

Perhaps Mrs Taylor wrote the name of the sender on the reverse

[Michael Dobbs]

Nothing to do with the actual query concerning the censor mark, but quite by coincidence there is a letter in the latest "The London Philatelist" (Vol 131, No 1497, July/August 2022) which provides a bit more information on HMS Asbury:

"For a number of years, several members of the Sevenoaks Stamp Club [USA, not Kent!] have been meeting fortnightly to bring some philately to discuss informally among friends.  In 2017 I brought along the cover shown here, address to Durban, Natal, South Africa, which brought delight to the late John Crowe FRPSL, who informed us he was stationed at Asbury Park, NJ, in July 1943.

The station consisted of two large sea-fronted hotels, the Berkeley and Monterey with a fenced perimeter.  It was a holding station for several hundred British seamen awaiting ships.  John was assigned to and joined in NY the Tank Landing Ship, HM LST 180.  He was aboard when they landed Canadian troops at Berniers sur Mer, on the Normandy coast of France."

The cover referred to above bore a tombstone censor mark, initialled 'CRM' dated 1 December 1943.  Due to the number of stamps on the front (ten in number) the New York post office, Foreign Branch, took a look inside.  Finding that it contained stamps it was returned to sender as they did not havbe a permit issued by the Office of Censorship.

Mike